20 korrents from this recording
Every claim below is a statement made in this recording, quoted word for word and linked to the second it was said, so you can hear it rather than take our word for it. The wording comes from the transcript published alongside the recording; the sentence above each quote is our reading of the claim, not their wording.
6:06 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Kent Beck
Their wordsAnd one of the things I noticed is for 25 years we've kind of had the answers. Somebody comes to us and says we have too many bugs or like, all right, well, here's how you write tests. Oh, I can't write tests. Well, here's how you design so you can write tests. It's just kind of press play uh on the recorder. And the thing that's changed is at this moment nobody knows the answers to anything.
7:11 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Kent Beck
Their wordsSo, as seniors, I figure it behooves us to demonstrate not just how to use these tools effectively, but how to figure out how to use these tools effectively, cuz that's a whole different set of skills.
7:54 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Martin Fowler
Their wordsWell, nothing has hit with the magnitude of AI. That's I mean, this is a a whole size difference from anything that we've faced before.
8:38 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Martin Fowler
Their wordsbut the thing about AI is that, you know, all of many of these things we were talking about how important they were and how valuable were and trying to persuade people of the importance of them. Yes, even the internet. That may sound surprising, but there were people who would weren't thinking that was important. Um but AI, there's kind of no argument about how important it is. People can't can I mean, you cannot put blinkers on to deny the importance of this thing.
11:35 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Martin Fowler
Their wordsMy skepticism has to be absolute and total, which means I have to be skeptical about my skepticism. And that requires that curiosity.
11:58 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Kent Beck
Their wordsYeah, what what's the smallest experiment I can run to verify to my own satisfaction and everybody's level of satisfaction is going to be different whether or not this claim is true. That's That's the skill that is suddenly in the last year become a thousand times more valuable is that skill of saying, "What's the least I can do to validate for my to my own satisfaction whether this claim is true?
13:36 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Martin Fowler
Their wordsone of the things that I took from that was to use this tool well, you have to learn how to use it well, which was also something very true of object orientation.
15:09 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Kent Beck
Their wordsThat's a You know, people want the answer, and the answer is changing. So, you can't possibly in this environment have the answer. Now, that's the bad news. The good news is nobody else has the answer either. So, you're just as smart as everybody else because you're just as ignorant as everybody else.
18:25 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Martin Fowler
Their wordsUm I think another similarity is I mean, the core notions uh behind Agile and extreme programming are solid and good, but a huge snake oil industry appeared around it, the Agile industrial complex as I like to refer to it. Um and that will happen. That is happening with AI right now, and it's often hard to see the difference between where is the snake oil and where is the real stuff.
18:55 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Kent Beck
Their wordsYeah, AI is an amplifier. And if uh if you're young and learning quickly, AI is going to amplify that or can amplify that. So, I I personally think this is this is the golden age of the junior programmer.
21:36 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Kent Beck
Their wordsBut now now we have this repeating this repeating, "Hey, we get to get rid of all the programmers." Which it behooves us as programmers to think about why they keep wanting to get rid of us. Some of that's about us and some of it's not, but some of it is. So we should think about that. But also that ants amps up the fear factor that everybody is experiencing.
22:10 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Martin Fowler
Their wordsI go to myself, "Well, yeah, but what do you mean by code?" Because that kind of implies nobody's writing anything. Well, we're at least doing some prompting. We're having some interaction with the genie. What's that going to be if it's not some form of code in some way? I think the nature of what code is is going to be quite possibly for a very radically different. But I think there is still a need to produce it and be able to interact with it in some way.
23:27 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Martin Fowler
Their wordsUm at the moment large-scale confusion and panic is pretty much the order of the day right across the board.
24:43 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Martin Fowler
Their wordsI am very much concerned we're going to have some really bad security incidents um over this year because people are just not paying attention.
25:09 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Kent Beck
Their wordsSo, I see a a big trend is the re-soloing of programming. Where a big part of extreme programming is creating a safe social environment for basically antisocial people. Not just asocial, antisocial. And the when I think about the degree of interaction on an XP team, people aren't talking to each other hours a day and happy to be doing so because it's set up for that to be a positive experience.
25:48 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Kent Beck
Their wordsWhat I see now is, well, "I'm a a programmer and I've got six agents. So, really I'm managing a team." No, you're not. You're using six tools at once, which is fine. But, it's that's very different than having a conversation with somebody who believes things that are a little different than what you believe.
27:33 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Martin Fowler
Their wordsMy bet is on the more effective two pizza teams. Um and it it's also some interesting, you know, feedback we're beginning to get in terms of pair programming. I mean, with pair programming, do you say pair programming is the human and the genie? Or is it two humans and and genies? Because if it's two of us, we can control the genies perhaps a little bit better.
28:28 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Kent Beck
Their wordsBut my my experience pairing with a two humans and a genie or multiple genies has been very positive. And the fact that they're kind of slow is really nice. So, every time the models come out and they're faster, I'm like, "Oh, there's less time to talk."
29:39 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Martin Fowler
Their wordswhich is that the the Venn diagram of developer experience and agent experience is a circle. And the point here is that, you know, what we do that that's good for the agents is good for the humans and vice versa. I'm hearing a lot of feedback saying, "Yeah, actually, if you have well-modularized code, that actually makes it easy for the agents to work with."
31:11 · watch on youtube.com↗ · Kent Beck
Their wordsSo I think for me I take a kind of uh OCD enjoyment in the in the craft. And I need to let go of that. Because that that satisfaction of getting this one function just right just doesn't make a difference anymore.